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Money/Finance as an enabler

Greetings to all, I was wondering why isn't finance/money considered as an enabler just like other resources (5-information, 6-Services, Infrastructure and Applications, 7-People, Skills and Competencies).
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RE: Money/Finance as an enabler

Hello Imad,
sorry for the delay in my response, but ... you know ...  

Finance could certainly be considered as an enabler, but is also an outcome you want to achieve (creating benefits or value for the business). 
I don't know the official opinion of ISACA, but I could agrue that the financial part is managed through several processes : e.g. manage budget & cost, manage resources, but also portfolio mananagement and ensuring benefit realisation.   

Your reasoning that you need financial means for hiring and training the people is certainly through, but also to run the systems, to rent ofr buy infrastructure, etc...   

Another argument could be that for instance in the ISO-standards (ISO9001 and ISO27001) finance and financial results are not considered, since the focus is on the operational management and steering, not on the benefits of the organisation. 
However, if you look at the EFQM model, then you see that the financial results are considered as 1 of the 4 result-domains.   
=> it is considered in models for "TOTAL" quality, but not in the ISO "management" standards.  

My conclusion would be that finance could indeed be considered as an enabler, but since it is managed through a few processes, and in this "Control" and "IT Governance" framework, not the main focus, and so money should be covered by a Corporate Governance framework, not by the IT-Governance Framework.  

GvoldersLively at 2/8/2018 2:55:03 PM Quote
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RE: Money/Finance as an enabler

Thanks Greet for taking the time to respond. 
You do have a point that it should be covered by a Corporate Governance Framework, however other enablers could also be covered or at least influenced to a large extent by it like enabler 3 (Organizational Structures) or enabler 4 (Culture, Ethics and Behavior).
ijomaaLively at 2/9/2018 1:23:50 AM Quote
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RE: Money/Finance as an enabler

Hello Imad,  you are absolutely right !  

So, why don't we advice our customers, or the people who start working with COBIT, to include this financial enabler in their approach ....   after all, COBIT is not prescriptive, so we can be creative in applying it, isn't it ?   

And, whenever I have the occasion to talk to ISACA responsibles, I will mention this.  

GvoldersLively at 2/9/2018 1:58:57 AM Quote
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RE: Money/Finance as an enabler

I think you are right. Leading by example, COBIT should normally consider the financial advantages of effective governance, risk and control adoption. The process of evaluating the return on cost savings or even business gains by adopting effective controls should be a normal decision support process. ISO 31000 as a standard advocates for this view. I think the subject area got skipped more by professional habit than by plan. Normally, IT Audit should limit its interface with financial implications to avoid entanglements that affect independence. For that reason, controls proposed from the Audit perspective often account for cost effective controls by siting "industry trends", "best practices", or "depth of experience" with cost competitive clients to support the practicality of control adoption. Yet, in a literal sense, effective controls are effective and good for business. These achieve the needed control in cost effective, sustainable ways that save money. That savings is both in operational effectiveness of the control and from the reduce impacts of materialized hazards that the control protects the firm from. These not only can be directly cost. To favor the rapid deployment, adoption and sustaining of effective controls, knowing the cost savings it creates helps with project justification and implemented metrics for management to sustain implemented controls.
Don TurnbladeEnergizer at 2/9/2018 8:20:48 AM Quote
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(Unrated)

RE: Money/Finance as an enabler

I think you are right. Leading by example, COBIT should normally consider the financial advantages of effective governance, risk and control adoption. The process of evaluating the return on cost savings or even business gains by adopting effective controls should be a normal decision support process. ISO 31000 as a standard advocates for this view. I think the subject area got skipped more by professional habit than by plan. Normally, IT Audit should limit its interface with financial implications to avoid entanglements that affect independence. For that reason, controls proposed from the Audit perspective often account for cost effective controls by siting "industry trends", "best practices", or "depth of experience" with cost competitive clients to support the practicality of control adoption. Yet, in a literal sense, effective controls are effective and good for business. These achieve the needed control in cost effective, sustainable ways that save money. That savings is both in operational effectiveness of the control and from the reduce impacts of materialized hazards that the control protects the firm from. These not only can be directly cost. To favor the rapid deployment, adoption and sustaining of effective controls, knowing the cost savings it creates helps with project justification and implemented metrics for management to sustain implemented controls.
Don TurnbladeEnergizer at 2/9/2018 8:20:48 AM Quote
You must sign in to rate content.
(Unrated)

RE: Money/Finance as an enabler

Hello Imad,  you are absolutely right !  

So, why don't we advice our customers, or the people who start working with COBIT, to include this financial enabler in their approach ....   after all, COBIT is not prescriptive, so we can be creative in applying it, isn't it ?   

And, whenever I have the occasion to talk to ISACA responsibles, I will mention this.  

GvoldersLively at 2/9/2018 1:58:57 AM Quote
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(1 ratings)

RE: Money/Finance as an enabler

Thanks Greet for taking the time to respond. 
You do have a point that it should be covered by a Corporate Governance Framework, however other enablers could also be covered or at least influenced to a large extent by it like enabler 3 (Organizational Structures) or enabler 4 (Culture, Ethics and Behavior).
ijomaaLively at 2/9/2018 1:23:50 AM Quote
You must sign in to rate content.
(Unrated)

RE: Money/Finance as an enabler

Hello Imad,
sorry for the delay in my response, but ... you know ...  

Finance could certainly be considered as an enabler, but is also an outcome you want to achieve (creating benefits or value for the business). 
I don't know the official opinion of ISACA, but I could agrue that the financial part is managed through several processes : e.g. manage budget & cost, manage resources, but also portfolio mananagement and ensuring benefit realisation.   

Your reasoning that you need financial means for hiring and training the people is certainly through, but also to run the systems, to rent ofr buy infrastructure, etc...   

Another argument could be that for instance in the ISO-standards (ISO9001 and ISO27001) finance and financial results are not considered, since the focus is on the operational management and steering, not on the benefits of the organisation. 
However, if you look at the EFQM model, then you see that the financial results are considered as 1 of the 4 result-domains.   
=> it is considered in models for "TOTAL" quality, but not in the ISO "management" standards.  

My conclusion would be that finance could indeed be considered as an enabler, but since it is managed through a few processes, and in this "Control" and "IT Governance" framework, not the main focus, and so money should be covered by a Corporate Governance framework, not by the IT-Governance Framework.  

GvoldersLively at 2/8/2018 2:55:03 PM Quote
You must sign in to rate content.
(Unrated)

RE: Money/Finance as an enabler

Hello Imad,  you are absolutely right !  

So, why don't we advice our customers, or the people who start working with COBIT, to include this financial enabler in their approach ....   after all, COBIT is not prescriptive, so we can be creative in applying it, isn't it ?   

And, whenever I have the occasion to talk to ISACA responsibles, I will mention this.  

GvoldersLively at 2/9/2018 1:58:57 AM Quote
You must sign in to rate content.
(1 ratings)

RE: Money/Finance as an enabler

Hello Imad,
sorry for the delay in my response, but ... you know ...  

Finance could certainly be considered as an enabler, but is also an outcome you want to achieve (creating benefits or value for the business). 
I don't know the official opinion of ISACA, but I could agrue that the financial part is managed through several processes : e.g. manage budget & cost, manage resources, but also portfolio mananagement and ensuring benefit realisation.   

Your reasoning that you need financial means for hiring and training the people is certainly through, but also to run the systems, to rent ofr buy infrastructure, etc...   

Another argument could be that for instance in the ISO-standards (ISO9001 and ISO27001) finance and financial results are not considered, since the focus is on the operational management and steering, not on the benefits of the organisation. 
However, if you look at the EFQM model, then you see that the financial results are considered as 1 of the 4 result-domains.   
=> it is considered in models for "TOTAL" quality, but not in the ISO "management" standards.  

My conclusion would be that finance could indeed be considered as an enabler, but since it is managed through a few processes, and in this "Control" and "IT Governance" framework, not the main focus, and so money should be covered by a Corporate Governance framework, not by the IT-Governance Framework.  

GvoldersLively at 2/8/2018 2:55:03 PM Quote
You must sign in to rate content.
(Unrated)

RE: Money/Finance as an enabler

Thanks Greet for taking the time to respond. 
You do have a point that it should be covered by a Corporate Governance Framework, however other enablers could also be covered or at least influenced to a large extent by it like enabler 3 (Organizational Structures) or enabler 4 (Culture, Ethics and Behavior).
ijomaaLively at 2/9/2018 1:23:50 AM Quote
You must sign in to rate content.
(Unrated)

RE: Money/Finance as an enabler

I think you are right. Leading by example, COBIT should normally consider the financial advantages of effective governance, risk and control adoption. The process of evaluating the return on cost savings or even business gains by adopting effective controls should be a normal decision support process. ISO 31000 as a standard advocates for this view. I think the subject area got skipped more by professional habit than by plan. Normally, IT Audit should limit its interface with financial implications to avoid entanglements that affect independence. For that reason, controls proposed from the Audit perspective often account for cost effective controls by siting "industry trends", "best practices", or "depth of experience" with cost competitive clients to support the practicality of control adoption. Yet, in a literal sense, effective controls are effective and good for business. These achieve the needed control in cost effective, sustainable ways that save money. That savings is both in operational effectiveness of the control and from the reduce impacts of materialized hazards that the control protects the firm from. These not only can be directly cost. To favor the rapid deployment, adoption and sustaining of effective controls, knowing the cost savings it creates helps with project justification and implemented metrics for management to sustain implemented controls.
Don TurnbladeEnergizer at 2/9/2018 8:20:48 AM Quote
You must sign in to rate content.
(Unrated)

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