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What does GEIT mean to you?

GEIT / MEIT (Governance and Management of Enterprise IT). Probably new jargon by ISACA enthusiasts like me. Anyway, what does GEIT mean to you and/or your organisation. I encourage you to read the recent ISACA publication "Getting Started With Governance of Enterprise IT (GEIT)" http://www.isaca.org/Knowledge-Center/Research/ResearchDeliverables/Pages/getting-started-with-governance-of-enterprise-it.aspx Please share your thoughts / insights / feedback once you read this very good publication.
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RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

This is a good article.  Two additional points I would consider:

1) The need to managing cultural change within the organisation - incorporating a methodology such as Kotters 8-step process for cultural change (e.g., looking for short term wins)

2) Considerations for situations where governance of the enterprise as a whole is of low maturity (e.g., what if there isn't an internal audit department?).   The "Cadbury" code of corporate governance is a good place to look to understand how the corporate culture and governance stacks up.
Phil GreenInfluential at 1/1/2016 5:38:01 AM Quote
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RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

Hello Mr. Shah,

The article is indeed a very nice and concise executive whitepaper, to get the management up to speed.

Like Mr. Green mentioned above, GEIT is comprehensive, and it does take a lot of best practices prevalent around the world, and neatly present it as a modular logical structure. However, it does require practitioners to read up these best practices individually in details as well.

Having said that, in fact I have personally used this whitepaper as an initial submission to the directors, to introduce the concept of GEIT.
Rohit BanerjeeInfluential at 1/4/2016 1:43:28 AM Quote
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RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

As I read the whitepaper, I couldn't help but think how GEIT was simply enterprise architecture. EA is a developed and mature disciple and, while not every organization has EA professionals, provides for a comprehensive strategic view of the IT environment. I have reviewed the EA process in several organizations as part of IT strategic auditing. I do not see the added value in a separate framework. If I am missing something, please let me know.
Richard FowlerEnergizer at 1/4/2016 8:58:45 AM Quote
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RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

As I read the whitepaper, I couldn't help but think how GEIT was simply enterprise architecture. EA is a developed and mature disciple and, while not every organization has EA professionals, provides for a comprehensive strategic view of the IT environment. I have reviewed the EA process in several organizations as part of IT strategic auditing. I do not see the added value in a separate framework. If I am missing something, please let me know.
Richard Fowler at 1/4/2016 8:58:45 AM
Hello Mr. Fowler,

Not to be dramatic, but it is indeed worrisome if the whitepaper left you with the impression that IT Governance and EA are the same or even similar. Please allow me to clarify the concepts.

While there are several opinions and thoughts about the 2 concepts, but it boils down to this - IT governance primarily focuses on running daily IT operations, whereas EA is primarily focused on designing the future state of architecture in support of business.

Though Enterprise Architecture is needed to identify an organization's information systems, the ways in which the components work together, and the way in which the information systems support the business processes of the organization, however IT Governance is (sometimes) a mandatory requirement as part of compliance, to ensure there are policies and processes in place to validate the alignment of the IT Goals with the organization Enterprise goals.

Another point of difference is IT Governance is the responsibility of the board of directors and executive management of an IT department (probably most important from the CIO position), whereas Enterprise Architecture need not have a defined or specified role as such (ARB or the Enterprise Architect are not mandated but needed though). 

In fact, Enterprise Architecture comes under the umbrella of IT Governance (and never the other way round).

You might want to read a nice concise article http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/enterprise-design/the-difference-between-it-governance-and-ea-governance-12513
Rohit BanerjeeInfluential at 1/4/2016 10:28:50 PM Quote
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RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

Richard poses a really great question (whether GEIT isn't in fact EA).

Like Rohit (and speaking as a possible CGEIT candidate) I also believed that EA comes under the umbrella of GEIT but having thought about it some more I'm not convinced it's that clear cut.

EA takes a broad view of the business and matching it with associated information, providing a framework for ensuring that business goals and objectives are cascaded into all decision making for building, implementing and maintaining IT systems.

This does sound a lot like GEIT!

Enterprise governance is about the responsibilities and practices exercised by the board and executive management to provide strategic direction to ensure that objectives are achieved, risks are managed and resources used responsibly.

Both have a strong strategic element, although COBIT positions EA as a management, not a governance process, under "Align, Plan and Organise".

On the other hand, from an EA perspective, EA is the hub of IT,  providing to and getting feeds from GEIT and IT projects/programms ad enabling/facilitating integration, sourcing, agility, organisation development and cost management.

One aspect of EA that's clear is that of information and data - ensuring standards for interprocess communication, data structures, data naming conventions and data representation exist and are properly applied across systems and the organisation.

Whether EA is part of GEIT or (per COBIT) the other way around it's clear that EA is a critical part of governance.


Phil GreenInfluential at 1/5/2016 2:58:47 AM Quote
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RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

Here's some more pertinent information on EA and Governance experts from a question I posted in another forum:

Enterprise Architecture designs the 'operating model', interpreting business goals, objectives etc. Governance is the activity of reviewing everything so that it's inline with the strategy, compliant with legislation and standards etc. - following the relevant parts of the 'operating model' as the way of doing this. Enterprise Architecture "provides the framework", it doesn't actually do the governance and decision making.
Phil GreenInfluential at 1/8/2016 1:04:25 PM Quote
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RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

Here's some more pertinent information on EA and Governance experts from a question I posted in another forum:

Enterprise Architecture designs the 'operating model', interpreting business goals, objectives etc. Governance is the activity of reviewing everything so that it's inline with the strategy, compliant with legislation and standards etc. - following the relevant parts of the 'operating model' as the way of doing this. Enterprise Architecture "provides the framework", it doesn't actually do the governance and decision making.
Phil Green at 1/8/2016 1:04:25 PM
I think this pretty much highlights the distinction between EA and Governance. Would it be correct to say however, that EA facilitates decision-making (though it does not do actual decision-making)?
Adeola0201 at 1/8/2016 2:00:25 PM Quote
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RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

I would agree with that - EA facilitates by providing the framework for decision making.
Phil GreenInfluential at 1/8/2016 5:37:45 PM Quote
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RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

Richard poses a really great question (whether GEIT isn't in fact EA).

Like Rohit (and speaking as a possible CGEIT candidate) I also believed that EA comes under the umbrella of GEIT but having thought about it some more I'm not convinced it's that clear cut.

EA takes a broad view of the business and matching it with associated information, providing a framework for ensuring that business goals and objectives are cascaded into all decision making for building, implementing and maintaining IT systems.

This does sound a lot like GEIT!

Enterprise governance is about the responsibilities and practices exercised by the board and executive management to provide strategic direction to ensure that objectives are achieved, risks are managed and resources used responsibly.

Both have a strong strategic element, although COBIT positions EA as a management, not a governance process, under "Align, Plan and Organise".

On the other hand, from an EA perspective, EA is the hub of IT,  providing to and getting feeds from GEIT and IT projects/programms ad enabling/facilitating integration, sourcing, agility, organisation development and cost management.

One aspect of EA that's clear is that of information and data - ensuring standards for interprocess communication, data structures, data naming conventions and data representation exist and are properly applied across systems and the organisation.

Whether EA is part of GEIT or (per COBIT) the other way around it's clear that EA is a critical part of governance.


Phil Green at 1/5/2016 2:58:47 AM
With all due respect Mr. Green, I do feel that your opinion may be misconstrued. 

Allow me to clarify: When it gets down to basics, think of only comparing the base words - Governance and Architecture. Both are needed and dependent on each other, but not the same or not even similar, even though it may seem to overlap.

For example, an architect of a building would design the technical and aesthetic design of the building including his/her own vision with the owner's requirements and needs in mind. The architect may create a fantastic work of art or technological marvel, however the architect still has to design, being complaint with the zoning rules and regulations. The zoning rules and regulations is Governance, and what the architect does is the Architecture.

That is the same difference between IT Governance and Enterprise Architecture. I hope my example shed some light and offered relative clarification to others.
Rohit BanerjeeInfluential at 1/9/2016 10:27:30 PM Quote
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RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

The comparison with building construction is a great one.  Zoning rules, building regulations etc. are the architect's concern. The architect provides the framework for adherence to the rules & regulations. The rules & regulations themselves are inputs to both architecture and governance.

Governance evaluates, directs and monitors with architecture providing the framework.
Phil GreenInfluential at 1/10/2016 7:37:22 AM Quote
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RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

The comparison with building construction is a great one.  Zoning rules, building regulations etc. are the architect's concern. The architect provides the framework for adherence to the rules & regulations. The rules & regulations themselves are inputs to both architecture and governance.

Governance evaluates, directs and monitors with architecture providing the framework.
Phil Green at 1/10/2016 7:37:22 AM
Mr. Green, don't get me wrong but I feel there is still some misconception.

The rules and regulations are not the inputs, but ARE the Governance, or can even be said to be the output of Governance. The architect may not necessarily actively contribute towards the rules and regulations but most definitely has to comply with them at all costs. 

Another example (one of my favourites when  I teach COBIT 5) is the Taxi Driver. Imagine yourself as the commuter in one of the taxis, and you instruct the taxi driver to reach a particular destination (goal), within a particular time (performance parameter). Those are the guiding directions you are expected to provide (unless you intend to be a back seat driver). Beyond that, it is the taxi driver's responsibility on how he/she gets you there, which lane, which street, which route, etc. All of this is based on the taxi driver's own experience and expertise. 

The only thing that you are expected to check is whether you have arrived at the goal and within the specified time parameter. You may also periodically evaluate the time to monitor performance, but are expected to leave all the tactical details to the taxi driver. At the end, based on time you may tip the driver (provided he/she gets you in one piece).

This is the decoupling of the governance and management at the appropriate level, and is very important and crucial to understand. The essence of separating and segregating Governance and Management was primarily this reason for COBIT 5 processes for EDM.

Another good example of understanding the difference is considering the Traffic & emission rules (governance), and building roadways and better cars (architecture).

End note: I do not intend to offend anyone in anyway. I'm far more inexperienced compared to other stellar stalwarts of the IT industry. It's just that I'm a little too passionate about Governance and do get worried if others get a wrong idea or impression about it. Hence I share my opinion and inputs.
Rohit BanerjeeInfluential at 1/11/2016 12:15:12 AM Quote
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RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

On a lighter note, the moral of the story is - Don't be the back seat driver!
Rohit BanerjeeInfluential at 1/11/2016 12:46:27 AM Quote
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RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

I will have to agree to disagree with you on a couple of points here.

The rules & regulations are the outputs of the country/state governance and are an input to corporate governance.  Governance then assesses those and takes whatever action the business decides, e.g., following an EDM approach.

It is also not a given and an organisation will fully comply with all regulatory requirements at all costs.  This is a business decision and typically following a risk based approach and we have to remember that not implementing a specific regulatory control may not constitute a breach of the overall code under the "Comply or Explain" principle.

The example of traffic & emission rules is a great one which I shall re-use if that's ok  :-)
Phil GreenInfluential at 1/11/2016 3:53:32 AM Quote
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RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

I think you did take my examples a little too literally, but I guess my message was understood.

And yes, you absolutely may re-use the example, after all we are all hear to learn and grow together.
Rohit BanerjeeInfluential at 1/11/2016 4:04:37 AM Quote
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RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

The comparison with building construction is a great one.  Zoning rules, building regulations etc. are the architect's concern. The architect provides the framework for adherence to the rules & regulations. The rules & regulations themselves are inputs to both architecture and governance.

Governance evaluates, directs and monitors with architecture providing the framework.
Phil Green at 1/10/2016 7:37:22 AM
Mr. Green, don't get me wrong but I feel there is still some misconception.

The rules and regulations are not the inputs, but ARE the Governance, or can even be said to be the output of Governance. The architect may not necessarily actively contribute towards the rules and regulations but most definitely has to comply with them at all costs. 

Another example (one of my favourites when  I teach COBIT 5) is the Taxi Driver. Imagine yourself as the commuter in one of the taxis, and you instruct the taxi driver to reach a particular destination (goal), within a particular time (performance parameter). Those are the guiding directions you are expected to provide (unless you intend to be a back seat driver). Beyond that, it is the taxi driver's responsibility on how he/she gets you there, which lane, which street, which route, etc. All of this is based on the taxi driver's own experience and expertise. 

The only thing that you are expected to check is whether you have arrived at the goal and within the specified time parameter. You may also periodically evaluate the time to monitor performance, but are expected to leave all the tactical details to the taxi driver. At the end, based on time you may tip the driver (provided he/she gets you in one piece).

This is the decoupling of the governance and management at the appropriate level, and is very important and crucial to understand. The essence of separating and segregating Governance and Management was primarily this reason for COBIT 5 processes for EDM.

Another good example of understanding the difference is considering the Traffic & emission rules (governance), and building roadways and better cars (architecture).

End note: I do not intend to offend anyone in anyway. I'm far more inexperienced compared to other stellar stalwarts of the IT industry. It's just that I'm a little too passionate about Governance and do get worried if others get a wrong idea or impression about it. Hence I share my opinion and inputs.
Rohit Banerjee at 1/11/2016 12:15:12 AM
<The rules and regulations are not the inputs, but ARE the Governance, or can even be said to be the output of Governance.> ....Corporate Governance is an important perspective of Governance but it is not the only one.... IT Governance helps organization on creating  value and good position on the market ...this is the Performance Perspective ... What Board wants to know is for instance < how can we increase the value share of the company if we invest on IT technology ?>... and we can help to reply as IT technical experts but we need to translate what we know in a simple way because not all the Board of Director is composed of  IT Men and if they don't understand even is it not their fault  a possible market segment could be lost and we don't want it at all .... If we are experts and we are in doubt about our models ...  Is EA more Goverance or Management ? how can not IT experts understand? ....  < help organizations to growth through IT let them know the huge opportunity they have using IT in a strategic and conformance way >  ... CobiT 5 and CGEIT are doing an important effort on this way ... we just need to follow them.
Stefania72Lively at 12/30/2016 4:24:19 AM Quote
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RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

The comparison with building construction is a great one.  Zoning rules, building regulations etc. are the architect's concern. The architect provides the framework for adherence to the rules & regulations. The rules & regulations themselves are inputs to both architecture and governance.

Governance evaluates, directs and monitors with architecture providing the framework.
Phil Green at 1/10/2016 7:37:22 AM
Mr. Green, don't get me wrong but I feel there is still some misconception.

The rules and regulations are not the inputs, but ARE the Governance, or can even be said to be the output of Governance. The architect may not necessarily actively contribute towards the rules and regulations but most definitely has to comply with them at all costs. 

Another example (one of my favourites when  I teach COBIT 5) is the Taxi Driver. Imagine yourself as the commuter in one of the taxis, and you instruct the taxi driver to reach a particular destination (goal), within a particular time (performance parameter). Those are the guiding directions you are expected to provide (unless you intend to be a back seat driver). Beyond that, it is the taxi driver's responsibility on how he/she gets you there, which lane, which street, which route, etc. All of this is based on the taxi driver's own experience and expertise. 

The only thing that you are expected to check is whether you have arrived at the goal and within the specified time parameter. You may also periodically evaluate the time to monitor performance, but are expected to leave all the tactical details to the taxi driver. At the end, based on time you may tip the driver (provided he/she gets you in one piece).

This is the decoupling of the governance and management at the appropriate level, and is very important and crucial to understand. The essence of separating and segregating Governance and Management was primarily this reason for COBIT 5 processes for EDM.

Another good example of understanding the difference is considering the Traffic & emission rules (governance), and building roadways and better cars (architecture).

End note: I do not intend to offend anyone in anyway. I'm far more inexperienced compared to other stellar stalwarts of the IT industry. It's just that I'm a little too passionate about Governance and do get worried if others get a wrong idea or impression about it. Hence I share my opinion and inputs.
Rohit Banerjee at 1/11/2016 12:15:12 AM
<The rules and regulations are not the inputs, but ARE the Governance, or can even be said to be the output of Governance.> ....Corporate Governance is an important perspective of Governance but it is not the only one.... IT Governance helps organization on creating  value and good position on the market ...this is the Performance Perspective ... What Board wants to know is for instance < how can we increase the value share of the company if we invest on IT technology ?>... and we can help to reply as IT technical experts but we need to translate what we know in a simple way because not all the Board of Director is composed of  IT Men and if they don't understand even is it not their fault  a possible market segment could be lost and we don't want it at all .... If we are experts and we are in doubt about our models ...  Is EA more Goverance or Management ? how can not IT experts understand? ....  < help organizations to growth through IT let them know the huge opportunity they have using IT in a strategic and conformance way >  ... CobiT 5 and CGEIT are doing an important effort on this way ... we just need to follow them.
Stefania72Lively at 12/30/2016 4:24:19 AM Quote
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RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

I think you did take my examples a little too literally, but I guess my message was understood.

And yes, you absolutely may re-use the example, after all we are all hear to learn and grow together.
Rohit BanerjeeInfluential at 1/11/2016 4:04:37 AM Quote
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(Unrated)

RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

I will have to agree to disagree with you on a couple of points here.

The rules & regulations are the outputs of the country/state governance and are an input to corporate governance.  Governance then assesses those and takes whatever action the business decides, e.g., following an EDM approach.

It is also not a given and an organisation will fully comply with all regulatory requirements at all costs.  This is a business decision and typically following a risk based approach and we have to remember that not implementing a specific regulatory control may not constitute a breach of the overall code under the "Comply or Explain" principle.

The example of traffic & emission rules is a great one which I shall re-use if that's ok  :-)
Phil GreenInfluential at 1/11/2016 3:53:32 AM Quote
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(Unrated)

RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

On a lighter note, the moral of the story is - Don't be the back seat driver!
Rohit BanerjeeInfluential at 1/11/2016 12:46:27 AM Quote
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(1 ratings)

RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

The comparison with building construction is a great one.  Zoning rules, building regulations etc. are the architect's concern. The architect provides the framework for adherence to the rules & regulations. The rules & regulations themselves are inputs to both architecture and governance.

Governance evaluates, directs and monitors with architecture providing the framework.
Phil Green at 1/10/2016 7:37:22 AM
Mr. Green, don't get me wrong but I feel there is still some misconception.

The rules and regulations are not the inputs, but ARE the Governance, or can even be said to be the output of Governance. The architect may not necessarily actively contribute towards the rules and regulations but most definitely has to comply with them at all costs. 

Another example (one of my favourites when  I teach COBIT 5) is the Taxi Driver. Imagine yourself as the commuter in one of the taxis, and you instruct the taxi driver to reach a particular destination (goal), within a particular time (performance parameter). Those are the guiding directions you are expected to provide (unless you intend to be a back seat driver). Beyond that, it is the taxi driver's responsibility on how he/she gets you there, which lane, which street, which route, etc. All of this is based on the taxi driver's own experience and expertise. 

The only thing that you are expected to check is whether you have arrived at the goal and within the specified time parameter. You may also periodically evaluate the time to monitor performance, but are expected to leave all the tactical details to the taxi driver. At the end, based on time you may tip the driver (provided he/she gets you in one piece).

This is the decoupling of the governance and management at the appropriate level, and is very important and crucial to understand. The essence of separating and segregating Governance and Management was primarily this reason for COBIT 5 processes for EDM.

Another good example of understanding the difference is considering the Traffic & emission rules (governance), and building roadways and better cars (architecture).

End note: I do not intend to offend anyone in anyway. I'm far more inexperienced compared to other stellar stalwarts of the IT industry. It's just that I'm a little too passionate about Governance and do get worried if others get a wrong idea or impression about it. Hence I share my opinion and inputs.
Rohit BanerjeeInfluential at 1/11/2016 12:15:12 AM Quote
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(Unrated)

RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

The comparison with building construction is a great one.  Zoning rules, building regulations etc. are the architect's concern. The architect provides the framework for adherence to the rules & regulations. The rules & regulations themselves are inputs to both architecture and governance.

Governance evaluates, directs and monitors with architecture providing the framework.
Phil GreenInfluential at 1/10/2016 7:37:22 AM Quote
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(Unrated)

RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

Richard poses a really great question (whether GEIT isn't in fact EA).

Like Rohit (and speaking as a possible CGEIT candidate) I also believed that EA comes under the umbrella of GEIT but having thought about it some more I'm not convinced it's that clear cut.

EA takes a broad view of the business and matching it with associated information, providing a framework for ensuring that business goals and objectives are cascaded into all decision making for building, implementing and maintaining IT systems.

This does sound a lot like GEIT!

Enterprise governance is about the responsibilities and practices exercised by the board and executive management to provide strategic direction to ensure that objectives are achieved, risks are managed and resources used responsibly.

Both have a strong strategic element, although COBIT positions EA as a management, not a governance process, under "Align, Plan and Organise".

On the other hand, from an EA perspective, EA is the hub of IT,  providing to and getting feeds from GEIT and IT projects/programms ad enabling/facilitating integration, sourcing, agility, organisation development and cost management.

One aspect of EA that's clear is that of information and data - ensuring standards for interprocess communication, data structures, data naming conventions and data representation exist and are properly applied across systems and the organisation.

Whether EA is part of GEIT or (per COBIT) the other way around it's clear that EA is a critical part of governance.


Phil Green at 1/5/2016 2:58:47 AM
With all due respect Mr. Green, I do feel that your opinion may be misconstrued. 

Allow me to clarify: When it gets down to basics, think of only comparing the base words - Governance and Architecture. Both are needed and dependent on each other, but not the same or not even similar, even though it may seem to overlap.

For example, an architect of a building would design the technical and aesthetic design of the building including his/her own vision with the owner's requirements and needs in mind. The architect may create a fantastic work of art or technological marvel, however the architect still has to design, being complaint with the zoning rules and regulations. The zoning rules and regulations is Governance, and what the architect does is the Architecture.

That is the same difference between IT Governance and Enterprise Architecture. I hope my example shed some light and offered relative clarification to others.
Rohit BanerjeeInfluential at 1/9/2016 10:27:30 PM Quote
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(Unrated)

RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

I would agree with that - EA facilitates by providing the framework for decision making.
Phil GreenInfluential at 1/8/2016 5:37:45 PM Quote
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(Unrated)

RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

Here's some more pertinent information on EA and Governance experts from a question I posted in another forum:

Enterprise Architecture designs the 'operating model', interpreting business goals, objectives etc. Governance is the activity of reviewing everything so that it's inline with the strategy, compliant with legislation and standards etc. - following the relevant parts of the 'operating model' as the way of doing this. Enterprise Architecture "provides the framework", it doesn't actually do the governance and decision making.
Phil Green at 1/8/2016 1:04:25 PM
I think this pretty much highlights the distinction between EA and Governance. Would it be correct to say however, that EA facilitates decision-making (though it does not do actual decision-making)?
Adeola0201 at 1/8/2016 2:00:25 PM Quote
You must sign in to rate content.
(1 ratings)

RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

Here's some more pertinent information on EA and Governance experts from a question I posted in another forum:

Enterprise Architecture designs the 'operating model', interpreting business goals, objectives etc. Governance is the activity of reviewing everything so that it's inline with the strategy, compliant with legislation and standards etc. - following the relevant parts of the 'operating model' as the way of doing this. Enterprise Architecture "provides the framework", it doesn't actually do the governance and decision making.
Phil GreenInfluential at 1/8/2016 1:04:25 PM Quote
You must sign in to rate content.
(Unrated)

RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

Richard poses a really great question (whether GEIT isn't in fact EA).

Like Rohit (and speaking as a possible CGEIT candidate) I also believed that EA comes under the umbrella of GEIT but having thought about it some more I'm not convinced it's that clear cut.

EA takes a broad view of the business and matching it with associated information, providing a framework for ensuring that business goals and objectives are cascaded into all decision making for building, implementing and maintaining IT systems.

This does sound a lot like GEIT!

Enterprise governance is about the responsibilities and practices exercised by the board and executive management to provide strategic direction to ensure that objectives are achieved, risks are managed and resources used responsibly.

Both have a strong strategic element, although COBIT positions EA as a management, not a governance process, under "Align, Plan and Organise".

On the other hand, from an EA perspective, EA is the hub of IT,  providing to and getting feeds from GEIT and IT projects/programms ad enabling/facilitating integration, sourcing, agility, organisation development and cost management.

One aspect of EA that's clear is that of information and data - ensuring standards for interprocess communication, data structures, data naming conventions and data representation exist and are properly applied across systems and the organisation.

Whether EA is part of GEIT or (per COBIT) the other way around it's clear that EA is a critical part of governance.


Phil GreenInfluential at 1/5/2016 2:58:47 AM Quote
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RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

As I read the whitepaper, I couldn't help but think how GEIT was simply enterprise architecture. EA is a developed and mature disciple and, while not every organization has EA professionals, provides for a comprehensive strategic view of the IT environment. I have reviewed the EA process in several organizations as part of IT strategic auditing. I do not see the added value in a separate framework. If I am missing something, please let me know.
Richard Fowler at 1/4/2016 8:58:45 AM
Hello Mr. Fowler,

Not to be dramatic, but it is indeed worrisome if the whitepaper left you with the impression that IT Governance and EA are the same or even similar. Please allow me to clarify the concepts.

While there are several opinions and thoughts about the 2 concepts, but it boils down to this - IT governance primarily focuses on running daily IT operations, whereas EA is primarily focused on designing the future state of architecture in support of business.

Though Enterprise Architecture is needed to identify an organization's information systems, the ways in which the components work together, and the way in which the information systems support the business processes of the organization, however IT Governance is (sometimes) a mandatory requirement as part of compliance, to ensure there are policies and processes in place to validate the alignment of the IT Goals with the organization Enterprise goals.

Another point of difference is IT Governance is the responsibility of the board of directors and executive management of an IT department (probably most important from the CIO position), whereas Enterprise Architecture need not have a defined or specified role as such (ARB or the Enterprise Architect are not mandated but needed though). 

In fact, Enterprise Architecture comes under the umbrella of IT Governance (and never the other way round).

You might want to read a nice concise article http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/enterprise-design/the-difference-between-it-governance-and-ea-governance-12513
Rohit BanerjeeInfluential at 1/4/2016 10:28:50 PM Quote
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RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

As I read the whitepaper, I couldn't help but think how GEIT was simply enterprise architecture. EA is a developed and mature disciple and, while not every organization has EA professionals, provides for a comprehensive strategic view of the IT environment. I have reviewed the EA process in several organizations as part of IT strategic auditing. I do not see the added value in a separate framework. If I am missing something, please let me know.
Richard FowlerEnergizer at 1/4/2016 8:58:45 AM Quote
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RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

Hello Mr. Shah,

The article is indeed a very nice and concise executive whitepaper, to get the management up to speed.

Like Mr. Green mentioned above, GEIT is comprehensive, and it does take a lot of best practices prevalent around the world, and neatly present it as a modular logical structure. However, it does require practitioners to read up these best practices individually in details as well.

Having said that, in fact I have personally used this whitepaper as an initial submission to the directors, to introduce the concept of GEIT.
Rohit BanerjeeInfluential at 1/4/2016 1:43:28 AM Quote
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RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

This is a good article.  Two additional points I would consider:

1) The need to managing cultural change within the organisation - incorporating a methodology such as Kotters 8-step process for cultural change (e.g., looking for short term wins)

2) Considerations for situations where governance of the enterprise as a whole is of low maturity (e.g., what if there isn't an internal audit department?).   The "Cadbury" code of corporate governance is a good place to look to understand how the corporate culture and governance stacks up.
Phil GreenInfluential at 1/1/2016 5:38:01 AM Quote
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RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

This is a good article.  Two additional points I would consider:

1) The need to managing cultural change within the organisation - incorporating a methodology such as Kotters 8-step process for cultural change (e.g., looking for short term wins)

2) Considerations for situations where governance of the enterprise as a whole is of low maturity (e.g., what if there isn't an internal audit department?).   The "Cadbury" code of corporate governance is a good place to look to understand how the corporate culture and governance stacks up.
Phil GreenInfluential at 1/1/2016 5:38:01 AM Quote
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RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

Here's some more pertinent information on EA and Governance experts from a question I posted in another forum:

Enterprise Architecture designs the 'operating model', interpreting business goals, objectives etc. Governance is the activity of reviewing everything so that it's inline with the strategy, compliant with legislation and standards etc. - following the relevant parts of the 'operating model' as the way of doing this. Enterprise Architecture "provides the framework", it doesn't actually do the governance and decision making.
Phil Green at 1/8/2016 1:04:25 PM
I think this pretty much highlights the distinction between EA and Governance. Would it be correct to say however, that EA facilitates decision-making (though it does not do actual decision-making)?
Adeola0201 at 1/8/2016 2:00:25 PM Quote
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RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

Hello Mr. Shah,

The article is indeed a very nice and concise executive whitepaper, to get the management up to speed.

Like Mr. Green mentioned above, GEIT is comprehensive, and it does take a lot of best practices prevalent around the world, and neatly present it as a modular logical structure. However, it does require practitioners to read up these best practices individually in details as well.

Having said that, in fact I have personally used this whitepaper as an initial submission to the directors, to introduce the concept of GEIT.
Rohit BanerjeeInfluential at 1/4/2016 1:43:28 AM Quote
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RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

As I read the whitepaper, I couldn't help but think how GEIT was simply enterprise architecture. EA is a developed and mature disciple and, while not every organization has EA professionals, provides for a comprehensive strategic view of the IT environment. I have reviewed the EA process in several organizations as part of IT strategic auditing. I do not see the added value in a separate framework. If I am missing something, please let me know.
Richard FowlerEnergizer at 1/4/2016 8:58:45 AM Quote
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RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

As I read the whitepaper, I couldn't help but think how GEIT was simply enterprise architecture. EA is a developed and mature disciple and, while not every organization has EA professionals, provides for a comprehensive strategic view of the IT environment. I have reviewed the EA process in several organizations as part of IT strategic auditing. I do not see the added value in a separate framework. If I am missing something, please let me know.
Richard Fowler at 1/4/2016 8:58:45 AM
Hello Mr. Fowler,

Not to be dramatic, but it is indeed worrisome if the whitepaper left you with the impression that IT Governance and EA are the same or even similar. Please allow me to clarify the concepts.

While there are several opinions and thoughts about the 2 concepts, but it boils down to this - IT governance primarily focuses on running daily IT operations, whereas EA is primarily focused on designing the future state of architecture in support of business.

Though Enterprise Architecture is needed to identify an organization's information systems, the ways in which the components work together, and the way in which the information systems support the business processes of the organization, however IT Governance is (sometimes) a mandatory requirement as part of compliance, to ensure there are policies and processes in place to validate the alignment of the IT Goals with the organization Enterprise goals.

Another point of difference is IT Governance is the responsibility of the board of directors and executive management of an IT department (probably most important from the CIO position), whereas Enterprise Architecture need not have a defined or specified role as such (ARB or the Enterprise Architect are not mandated but needed though). 

In fact, Enterprise Architecture comes under the umbrella of IT Governance (and never the other way round).

You might want to read a nice concise article http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/enterprise-design/the-difference-between-it-governance-and-ea-governance-12513
Rohit BanerjeeInfluential at 1/4/2016 10:28:50 PM Quote
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RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

Richard poses a really great question (whether GEIT isn't in fact EA).

Like Rohit (and speaking as a possible CGEIT candidate) I also believed that EA comes under the umbrella of GEIT but having thought about it some more I'm not convinced it's that clear cut.

EA takes a broad view of the business and matching it with associated information, providing a framework for ensuring that business goals and objectives are cascaded into all decision making for building, implementing and maintaining IT systems.

This does sound a lot like GEIT!

Enterprise governance is about the responsibilities and practices exercised by the board and executive management to provide strategic direction to ensure that objectives are achieved, risks are managed and resources used responsibly.

Both have a strong strategic element, although COBIT positions EA as a management, not a governance process, under "Align, Plan and Organise".

On the other hand, from an EA perspective, EA is the hub of IT,  providing to and getting feeds from GEIT and IT projects/programms ad enabling/facilitating integration, sourcing, agility, organisation development and cost management.

One aspect of EA that's clear is that of information and data - ensuring standards for interprocess communication, data structures, data naming conventions and data representation exist and are properly applied across systems and the organisation.

Whether EA is part of GEIT or (per COBIT) the other way around it's clear that EA is a critical part of governance.


Phil GreenInfluential at 1/5/2016 2:58:47 AM Quote
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RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

Here's some more pertinent information on EA and Governance experts from a question I posted in another forum:

Enterprise Architecture designs the 'operating model', interpreting business goals, objectives etc. Governance is the activity of reviewing everything so that it's inline with the strategy, compliant with legislation and standards etc. - following the relevant parts of the 'operating model' as the way of doing this. Enterprise Architecture "provides the framework", it doesn't actually do the governance and decision making.
Phil GreenInfluential at 1/8/2016 1:04:25 PM Quote
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RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

I would agree with that - EA facilitates by providing the framework for decision making.
Phil GreenInfluential at 1/8/2016 5:37:45 PM Quote
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RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

Richard poses a really great question (whether GEIT isn't in fact EA).

Like Rohit (and speaking as a possible CGEIT candidate) I also believed that EA comes under the umbrella of GEIT but having thought about it some more I'm not convinced it's that clear cut.

EA takes a broad view of the business and matching it with associated information, providing a framework for ensuring that business goals and objectives are cascaded into all decision making for building, implementing and maintaining IT systems.

This does sound a lot like GEIT!

Enterprise governance is about the responsibilities and practices exercised by the board and executive management to provide strategic direction to ensure that objectives are achieved, risks are managed and resources used responsibly.

Both have a strong strategic element, although COBIT positions EA as a management, not a governance process, under "Align, Plan and Organise".

On the other hand, from an EA perspective, EA is the hub of IT,  providing to and getting feeds from GEIT and IT projects/programms ad enabling/facilitating integration, sourcing, agility, organisation development and cost management.

One aspect of EA that's clear is that of information and data - ensuring standards for interprocess communication, data structures, data naming conventions and data representation exist and are properly applied across systems and the organisation.

Whether EA is part of GEIT or (per COBIT) the other way around it's clear that EA is a critical part of governance.


Phil Green at 1/5/2016 2:58:47 AM
With all due respect Mr. Green, I do feel that your opinion may be misconstrued. 

Allow me to clarify: When it gets down to basics, think of only comparing the base words - Governance and Architecture. Both are needed and dependent on each other, but not the same or not even similar, even though it may seem to overlap.

For example, an architect of a building would design the technical and aesthetic design of the building including his/her own vision with the owner's requirements and needs in mind. The architect may create a fantastic work of art or technological marvel, however the architect still has to design, being complaint with the zoning rules and regulations. The zoning rules and regulations is Governance, and what the architect does is the Architecture.

That is the same difference between IT Governance and Enterprise Architecture. I hope my example shed some light and offered relative clarification to others.
Rohit BanerjeeInfluential at 1/9/2016 10:27:30 PM Quote
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RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

The comparison with building construction is a great one.  Zoning rules, building regulations etc. are the architect's concern. The architect provides the framework for adherence to the rules & regulations. The rules & regulations themselves are inputs to both architecture and governance.

Governance evaluates, directs and monitors with architecture providing the framework.
Phil GreenInfluential at 1/10/2016 7:37:22 AM Quote
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RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

The comparison with building construction is a great one.  Zoning rules, building regulations etc. are the architect's concern. The architect provides the framework for adherence to the rules & regulations. The rules & regulations themselves are inputs to both architecture and governance.

Governance evaluates, directs and monitors with architecture providing the framework.
Phil Green at 1/10/2016 7:37:22 AM
Mr. Green, don't get me wrong but I feel there is still some misconception.

The rules and regulations are not the inputs, but ARE the Governance, or can even be said to be the output of Governance. The architect may not necessarily actively contribute towards the rules and regulations but most definitely has to comply with them at all costs. 

Another example (one of my favourites when  I teach COBIT 5) is the Taxi Driver. Imagine yourself as the commuter in one of the taxis, and you instruct the taxi driver to reach a particular destination (goal), within a particular time (performance parameter). Those are the guiding directions you are expected to provide (unless you intend to be a back seat driver). Beyond that, it is the taxi driver's responsibility on how he/she gets you there, which lane, which street, which route, etc. All of this is based on the taxi driver's own experience and expertise. 

The only thing that you are expected to check is whether you have arrived at the goal and within the specified time parameter. You may also periodically evaluate the time to monitor performance, but are expected to leave all the tactical details to the taxi driver. At the end, based on time you may tip the driver (provided he/she gets you in one piece).

This is the decoupling of the governance and management at the appropriate level, and is very important and crucial to understand. The essence of separating and segregating Governance and Management was primarily this reason for COBIT 5 processes for EDM.

Another good example of understanding the difference is considering the Traffic & emission rules (governance), and building roadways and better cars (architecture).

End note: I do not intend to offend anyone in anyway. I'm far more inexperienced compared to other stellar stalwarts of the IT industry. It's just that I'm a little too passionate about Governance and do get worried if others get a wrong idea or impression about it. Hence I share my opinion and inputs.
Rohit BanerjeeInfluential at 1/11/2016 12:15:12 AM Quote
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RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

On a lighter note, the moral of the story is - Don't be the back seat driver!
Rohit BanerjeeInfluential at 1/11/2016 12:46:27 AM Quote
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RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

I will have to agree to disagree with you on a couple of points here.

The rules & regulations are the outputs of the country/state governance and are an input to corporate governance.  Governance then assesses those and takes whatever action the business decides, e.g., following an EDM approach.

It is also not a given and an organisation will fully comply with all regulatory requirements at all costs.  This is a business decision and typically following a risk based approach and we have to remember that not implementing a specific regulatory control may not constitute a breach of the overall code under the "Comply or Explain" principle.

The example of traffic & emission rules is a great one which I shall re-use if that's ok  :-)
Phil GreenInfluential at 1/11/2016 3:53:32 AM Quote
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RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

I think you did take my examples a little too literally, but I guess my message was understood.

And yes, you absolutely may re-use the example, after all we are all hear to learn and grow together.
Rohit BanerjeeInfluential at 1/11/2016 4:04:37 AM Quote
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RE: What does GEIT mean to you?

The comparison with building construction is a great one.  Zoning rules, building regulations etc. are the architect's concern. The architect provides the framework for adherence to the rules & regulations. The rules & regulations themselves are inputs to both architecture and governance.

Governance evaluates, directs and monitors with architecture providing the framework.
Phil Green at 1/10/2016 7:37:22 AM
Mr. Green, don't get me wrong but I feel there is still some misconception.

The rules and regulations are not the inputs, but ARE the Governance, or can even be said to be the output of Governance. The architect may not necessarily actively contribute towards the rules and regulations but most definitely has to comply with them at all costs. 

Another example (one of my favourites when  I teach COBIT 5) is the Taxi Driver. Imagine yourself as the commuter in one of the taxis, and you instruct the taxi driver to reach a particular destination (goal), within a particular time (performance parameter). Those are the guiding directions you are expected to provide (unless you intend to be a back seat driver). Beyond that, it is the taxi driver's responsibility on how he/she gets you there, which lane, which street, which route, etc. All of this is based on the taxi driver's own experience and expertise. 

The only thing that you are expected to check is whether you have arrived at the goal and within the specified time parameter. You may also periodically evaluate the time to monitor performance, but are expected to leave all the tactical details to the taxi driver. At the end, based on time you may tip the driver (provided he/she gets you in one piece).

This is the decoupling of the governance and management at the appropriate level, and is very important and crucial to understand. The essence of separating and segregating Governance and Management was primarily this reason for COBIT 5 processes for EDM.

Another good example of understanding the difference is considering the Traffic & emission rules (governance), and building roadways and better cars (architecture).

End note: I do not intend to offend anyone in anyway. I'm far more inexperienced compared to other stellar stalwarts of the IT industry. It's just that I'm a little too passionate about Governance and do get worried if others get a wrong idea or impression about it. Hence I share my opinion and inputs.
Rohit Banerjee at 1/11/2016 12:15:12 AM
<The rules and regulations are not the inputs, but ARE the Governance, or can even be said to be the output of Governance.> ....Corporate Governance is an important perspective of Governance but it is not the only one.... IT Governance helps organization on creating  value and good position on the market ...this is the Performance Perspective ... What Board wants to know is for instance < how can we increase the value share of the company if we invest on IT technology ?>... and we can help to reply as IT technical experts but we need to translate what we know in a simple way because not all the Board of Director is composed of  IT Men and if they don't understand even is it not their fault  a possible market segment could be lost and we don't want it at all .... If we are experts and we are in doubt about our models ...  Is EA more Goverance or Management ? how can not IT experts understand? ....  < help organizations to growth through IT let them know the huge opportunity they have using IT in a strategic and conformance way >  ... CobiT 5 and CGEIT are doing an important effort on this way ... we just need to follow them.
Stefania72Lively at 12/30/2016 4:24:19 AM Quote
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